WASHINGTON (AP) — Lawmakers said Kathryn Ruemmler, the former top lawyer at Goldman Sachs and White House counsel to President Barack Obama, was not being truthful Wednesday about her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, rejecting her testimony that Epstein had merely “used” her.
Ruemmler in her opening remarks told members of the House Oversight Committee that “it was a mistake to deal with” Epstein, but she insisted she never witnessed criminal activity.
She said Epstein “used me and other respectable people to legitimize his standing.”
Democrats emerged from the first several hours of questioning saying Ruemmler was not being forthcoming about her ties to Epstein.
“It is difficult to see how she’s being completely truthful in there with the answers she’s given the committee,” Rep. Robert Garcia of California, the top Democrat on the committee, told reporters.
Ruemmler is the latest prominent figure called before the House Oversight Committee as lawmakers investigate the network of powerful people connected with Epstein. The bipartisan inquiry has already included testimony from more than a dozen high-profile witnesses, including Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates and former President Bill Clinton, as lawmakers examine how Epstein's wealth and influence may have helped shield him from scrutiny.
Ruemmler served as White House counsel under Obama from 2011 to 2014 and was briefly considered for attorney general. She served as Goldman Sachs’ general counsel for six years before announcing in February that she would step down amid backlash over her correspondence with Epstein. Although she said she would step down on June 30, she remains employed by Goldman Sachs.
Lawmakers have focused on Ruemmler’s close relationship with Epstein in the final years of his life, pointing to affectionate communications between the two.
“For her to deny that there was any type of real relationship there, I just don't buy it,” Garcia said. “And so, again, the fact she is not under oath is very problematic.”
While Ruemmler has tried to downplay their relationship in more recent statements, thousands of documents released by the Justice Department showed that Ruemmler and Epstein had an extensive relationship. The files included personal emails, social plans and gifts that extended beyond formal legal work. Documents showed she had called Epstein “Uncle Jeffrey” in emails and said she adored him.
Ruemmler said in her opening remarks that she first met Epstein in 2014 regarding potentially working with him and Gates “to set up a large donor-advised fund.” Soon after, according to Ruemmler, she learned about Epstein’s 2008 conviction on sex crimes, when he became a registered sex offender.
She said Epstein expressed remorse about it, and that he did not know the women were underaged. She said she “relied on the resolution reached by federal and state prosecutors and validated by a judge as being a proportionate and final resolution of his criminal conduct.”
House Oversight Chair James Comer told reporters Wednesday that the “most concerning” part of Ruemmler's communications with Epstein is how she “tried to rehabilitate his image after he was convicted of solicitation of a minor.”
Comer said Wednesday that Ruemmler is the 18th person to testify as part of their broader investigation.
Billionaire investor Leon Black was subpoenaed last month after lawmakers said he refused to answer some questions about his yearslong relationship with Epstein.
Comer said Wednesday that Black will appear for a formal deposition on Sept. 3 but that he expects to have Black's nondisclosure agreements by “the end of the week.”
The committee has also expressed interest in questioning acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, whose nomination to permanently lead the Justice Department is pending before the Senate. Former Attorney General Pam Bondi identified Blanche as the department’s point person on the release of the Epstein documents, a process that has drawn bipartisan scrutiny.
“Hopefully Blanche will come in as soon as his confirmation is over,” Comer said.
