Without being fluent in Swedish, it’s a little tough to pick out any details from the conversation Zara Larsson and Robyn are currently engrossed in. The pair of pop stars are leaning into each other on a couch at Soho House Stockholm, an old Methodist
church turned social hot spot in the heart of the city, as they sit down for Rolling Stone’s Musicians on Musicians issue. Whatever they’re saying, it must be hilarious. Larsson laughs the loudest when Robyn slips back into English for just a second with a zero-context one-liner: “Make a power baby.”
They don’t get to do this often. “It’s weird speaking English together when we’re both Swedish,” Larsson tells Robyn once the cameras are rolling. “But we’ve been doing that for many years in our careers.”
Robyn’s ascent began a few years before Larsson was even born: Her debut album, Robyn Is Here, arrived in 1995, when she was 16 years old, and featured production from pop giant Max Martin on her single “Show Me Love.” More than a decade later, the raw, direct emotion of “Dancing on My Own” put an even brighter spotlight on her catalog, ultimately becoming her signature anthem.
Larsson, meanwhile, released two of her first hits, “Lush Life” and “Never Forget You,” in 2015, when she was 17. They were small glimpses into the breakthrough that would follow in 2025 with her fifth studio album, Midnight Sun. Larsson’s hunger for pop success has sustained her through all of that time, but so has her commitment to being herself no matter what.
When she hears about the times Robyn was ridiculed for embracing the same spirit earlier in her career, Larsson can’t wrap her head around anyone not wanting their pop stars to be loud and outspoken. (Larsson herself has said she lost a $3 million brand deal after speaking up in support of abortion rights.)
Watch the video interview below
Robyn: You know the Swedish word flamsig?
Larsson: It’s like “silly.”
Robyn: Or “having the giggles” or something. It’s my favorite thing, to watch you on TikTok doing that. It’s a superpower. I remember when I was a kid, me and my girlfriends would decide before school ended that we would go home and flamsa, like a date. We’ll be like, “Let’s go home and flamsa!” And then we would just make each other laugh till we cried.
Larsson: I haven’t heard that word in so long. It’s really such an integral part of my being. That is my number-one priority. When I approach everything, even the people I work with and how I live my life, that’s so important for me, to be able to have fun. That’s my philosophy — that whatever this is, in life, I always want to know that I can laugh, and nothing is that serious. Sometimes it is, but you have to come back to the joy.
Robyn: Me and Klas [Åhlund], who I work with a lot, we have something called bananradio, which is “banana radio” — it’s this flams state that we go into in the studio. You have to elevate yourself above your normal daily life. But it’s also a way to be yourself. It’s underrated as a protection for a female pop star, and I feel like that’s what you do. People think you’re nice and silly and fun, then you use it to protect who you are.
Larsson: I’ve always voiced my opinions on things ever since I was very young. You brought up just before this [interview], speaking of abortions — even when you talk about stuff like that, which is obviously a very serious conversation, when you speak about it with a sprinkle of humor, it just lands maybe softer. It makes you more human, perhaps.… I’ve just recently started to have my own collaborators. You’ve had that for a really long time. Klas, he’s your number-one guy, right?
Robyn: He’s like the second band member in Robyn.
Larsson: It’s so important to have that friendship and collaborator, companion, and partner. I just kind of got that with Midnight Sun. It changed everything for me. We found Margo XS and Helena Gao through my manager. It was really magical. And then I decided, “Let’s just go in as a group” — with MNEK being the executive producer, because he knew me the most.
Robyn: Do you feel like it changes your creative process when you’re in a room with only queer and female writers?
Larsson: Yes. That was also a very active choice. With women, or with queer people, or with people that have the same references, the same life experiences, you don’t have to explain yourself that much. You’re just understood. That can obviously happen with anyone, but I think it’s a shortcut to get the straight men out of there.
Robyn: Totally. I mean, I always worked with straight men, and that was a learning curve. What’s cool about me and Klas is that we found our way through it. I’m also, like, 20 years younger than him — sorry Klas. [Note: They are about seven years apart.] With the age difference, I was a little sister and I had to really prove myself.
Larsson: How did you meet?
Robyn: This crazy thing happened around 2005, where [people] were hired by evening papers to instigate fights with famous people. We were attacked by these kids with cameras in this little side street to the bar. They were trying to get us to fight them. Klas went to jail that night. That’s how we met.
Larsson: You’re like, “That’s my collaborator.” Wait, that’s fucking crazy. You just stood to the side?
Robyn: I screamed, “What the fuck!”
Larsson: How were the pictures? Did they come out?
Robyn: I wish I knew. I think it was in the papers.… You’re so yourself and vocal about your opinions. How do you do that? I think it’s so brave and so sophisticated how you move through the world, like with your political views. I wonder sometimes what it costs you.
Larsson: Growing up with the internet, I used to have a blog. I had it really young, from 13 or 14. I started reading more about the news, and I just got a bigger picture of the world and the injustices that happen. I fought so much with people in my comments on my blog. I was just like, “I know that I don’t agree with what this is saying. How can I express why I don’t agree?” A lot of Tumblr, a lot of Wikipedia, a lot of following a bunch of cool feminists online, and also being curious and empathetic at the end of the day. I do think it comes from a will to know—
Robyn: —what it feels like for someone else.
“With Women or queer people, you don’t have to explain yourself. It’s a shortcut to get the straight men out.”
Zara Larsson
Larsson: Even if we completely disagree, we are in a passionate debate and we are connecting somehow. If you’ve listened to my music, you might not know about what I think about things besides music, and if you follow me on other platforms, you might not know what my music sounds like. But I would really like to have them come together more.
Robyn: That’s such a cool way to look at it, that there’s actually connection in disagreement.
Larsson: I spoke to [songwriter] Alexander Kronlund about that. He was telling me that people were really harsh on you when you were young. I didn’t know that, because it was pre-internet.
Robyn: It was only evening news. In Sweden, we both love [pop star] Carola, but there were not so many young female artists after her. I was singing in English, I was cocky, and that was not appreciated. I actually did shows where people threw eggs on me, and tomatoes. The hate was in the front row screaming at me. It was real-life trolling.
Larsson: I’ve never had that. I’ve had the tomatoes once, but that’s it. What did you even say for them to feel like that? Were you really that cocky, or was it just, “Hey, I’m a young girl, and I want to have success, and I think I’m good”?
Robyn: I knew how to reply to the hate. I knew how to talk back. And that’s of course perceived as cocky. The evening news was like, “Does she deserve to be here?” And I was like, “I’m just making music about teenage feelings.” I was also surprised that it was the teenage girls that were hating.
Larsson: Do you feel like that shifted? Because I don’t think it’s like that now. You’re so loved.
Robyn: I’ve been so lucky. When I made this album, I didn’t even know it was gonna be about doing IVF and having a baby and dating at the same time — all these things. It was never a statement. But I think for some people here, in Sweden, it’s perceived a little bit as independent-woman girlbossing, basically. For me it was more like I’m just pulling down my own pants. Like, shit, look at my life. I had a baby on my own. I couldn’t do it any other way. It felt very vulnerable to me.
Larsson: It is.
Robyn: That was what was so amazing about having a career outside of Sweden. There’s something about expanding your world as an artist that is really liberating. You find so many other aspects of what you’re doing. I think about that with you sometimes, especially in America — you’re presenting femininity and you’re so beautiful, and then you talk about abortion.
Larsson: It’s just authentic. In my world, to speak about abortions, immigrants, human rights, that doesn’t feel like a big thing. But then you say it and you see the backlash, and you’re like, “Oh, whoops!” If I wasn’t a singer, I think I would still be out there just letting people know how I feel.
Robyn: I think it also scared me after the clapback. I felt controlled by the idea that I had to do the right thing. That’s what’s so amazing about you: It feels like you’re free from that pressure and you can still voice your opinion, and it doesn’t affect your integrity.
Larsson: I have young girls at my shows, and they’re maybe eight or nine. They’re way younger than “Lush Life,” but they have just discovered that song. It’s crazy that I’ve reached an age now where I get to see the next generation of kids [discover my music]. How do you feel about that?
“I did shows where people threw eggs. The hate was in the front row screaming at me.”
Robyn
Robyn: I just feel like, “Welcome.” I had this comment the other day, which must have been from a young person, on my Instagram: “‘Dancing on My Own,’ the first pop song that started pop culture.” I was like, “No, that’s not true. But I’m happy you feel that way.”
Larsson: I’ve spoken to my friends about Madonna. She’s up there in her sixties. How old is she?
Robyn: I don’t care.
Larsson: I don’t care! Exactly. There’s a woman a lot of people consider to be too old to be a pop star — and only women go through this, by the way. All the men, they just tour till they drop dead. She’s in this corset, and she’s doing these dances. She’s saying, “Fuck you guys. I can still be sexy.” Because she’s Madonna. Whatever happens in the world, she is Madonna. The fact that she is still her is really powerful and fun.
Robyn: It is, and when she talks about it, you realize how smart she is and how much she thought about it. It’s not something that she’s doing to just piss people off.
Larsson: A pioneer — and quite punk to go out there and not care.
Robyn: Do you feel pressure to think about what your career is going to be in 20 years, or do you feel like the moment is now?
Larsson: I do think the moment is now. When I started out, I just wanted to sing, I wanted to perform. But now I am in charge of what I make and what I write and who I work with. It took me a long time to get into that, maybe because I started so young and felt really powerless. I cared a lot about the general public. What do they want? What do they want to hear? What should I look like? I don’t care as much anymore — and that’s ironically when other people start caring more, because you’re more true to who you are. I don’t think there is an expiration date on a pop star. This is just who I am. Do you ever feel like, “Oh, I’m done now”?
Robyn: I don’t really think about what I’m gonna do. I think about what’s fun. When I make an album, I think about “What is it gonna sound like onstage?” That’s the moment that exists for me, even in the studio. And it’s because I’m obsessed with it. When you’re obsessed, your life becomes more interesting.
Larsson: Can you come up with one of those moments that you’re like, “I wish I had captured this [on camera]”?
Robyn: Writing “Dancing on My Own,” one of those songs that just came out of nowhere. You don’t know it when you’re writing it, but then afterwards you kind of wish you had seen it coming.
Larsson: Did you go to the studio knowing what you wanted to talk about?
Robyn: I had this idea about writing a song called “Dancing on My Own.” I’m like, there’s “Dancing by Myself,” there’s “Dancing in the Dark,” “Dancing With Tears in My Eyes.” There’s no “Dancing on My Own.” The song is really just about me wanting to connect with my dad. I think that’s what all my abstract love songs are about, but when I wrote this one, it was also about different love stories that were in and out of my life.
Larsson: It is hard to be in the now, and then think about how it’s gonna be received. I’m currently sort of recording a documentary, but we don’t really have a plan for it. We started filming at the very start of my U.S. tour, which was just a small theater tour, and the first show we couldn’t fit the dancers or the band, so we’re like, “Sorry, guys, you can’t perform tonight.” The journey from that to Madison Square Garden, I think that’s a fun thing to capture.
Robyn: I think [my first memory of your music] was with “Lush Life.” That was the big moment.
Larsson: I mean, you’ve just kind of always been there. You’ve had hits on every album. The mother of pop music. It also makes me really excited to sit here with you, because really the only time I think about being Swedish is when I’m not in Sweden, or when I do something really Swedish, like a collab with you. “Talk to Me” or even “Puss Puss,” it feels like Sweden. I know other people in other countries or places, they’re very amused by the Swedish pop phenomenon.
Robyn: It’s become a thing, and you don’t think about it because it’s so inherent in the culture.
Larsson: But you are such a figure in the Swedish pop world, which is huge.
Robyn: It was a special moment at that time, also with Max Martin starting and everything that came with it. It was really hard to navigate it, actually, because no one else was doing it. So it felt very lonely. There was a total culture shock for me coming to America at that time, not having anyone else to look at from where I came from. Because the cultures are different, it was definitely lost in translation. With the new generation that you talked about, like the eight- and nine-year-olds, how are they different from you?
Larsson: I think they spend a lot more time on their screens. I remember when I used to have my blog, it would be computer time. I would be on the internet, and then when I was finished, you would stand up and you would go and live your life. Nowadays, when kids hang out, I think they hang out and they watch TikToks, or they hang out and the third friend is the phone. I know I am completely addicted to my phone.
Robyn: I feel like what was cool about growing up before social media, I had a life. I didn’t have to think about if what I did with my friends was going to end up on someone else’s Instagram. It makes kids more careful and more afraid of letting go.
Larsson: They don’t want to let loose because they’re scared someone might be in the corner filming them and posting it on the internet. That’s why I really enjoyed your crowd. They felt really in the moment, and maybe my crowd is a little bit younger, and for them, it’s a currency — filming
a video, posting it, getting a lot of likes, showing “I was there” more than being there. I’m a victim of that too. I want to post, and I want to get the likes.
Robyn: There’s a reason you can’t have your phone in Berghain.
Production Credits
ROBYN Styling by NAOMI ITKES. Hair by NIKOLA GROZDIC. Makeup by STEVIE HUYNH.
ZARA Styling by CATARINA OSPINA. Hair by JESSICA KRAGE. Makeup by IGNACIO ALONSO.
Photographic assistance: NICHOLAS AKIRA CORCIULO and JULIA MALMQUIST. Video Interview DoP MARKUS AMNEGARD; Camera Operators DAVID JANSSON, SIMON BENDROTH, ABRAHAM WILLEY. Production Assistance: ELIAS SJÖBORG. Photographed at SOHO HOUSE SWEDEN
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