As the powerhouse publisher behind blockbuster books by Bruce Springsteen, Dave Grohl, Cher, Debbie Harry, and Geddy Lee, Carrie Thornton is used to wooing rock stars in order to acquire their memoirs.
But in the case of Tears for Fears’ Roland Orzabal
and his current New York Times bestseller, Welcome to My Life, the senior vice president of Dey Street Books (an imprint of HarperCollins) needed their partnership to be written in the stars. Literally.
“He did my astrological chart when we met,” says Thornton, a lifelong Tears for Fears fan. “I think he wanted to make sure that, if we were going to work together, I was compatible with him.”
Orzabal’s interest in Thornton’s birth chart wasn’t just part of the vetting process. Published last month, Welcome to My Life tells the story of his life and four-plus decades with Tears for Fears, but — as its subtitle announces — it’s also An Astrological Memoir. The book’s very first page features the 65-year-old author’s own birth chart, which he uses as a framework for revisiting everything from childhood trauma and the formation of the band to fame, family and loss.
“It is definitely the most unique rock memoir I’ve ever edited,” says Thornton. “When we first announced the book and the subtitle, a lot of people were like, ‘Huh…why?’ There was a bit of pushback among the fan base.” Now that the book is out, she adds, “No one has had anything negative to say.”
Orzabal, meanwhile, may not be done writing about the stars: There may even be a book devoted entirely to astrology in his future. He also talks to Rolling Stone about what might be next for Tears for Fears in this interview, conducted shortly after he learned Welcome to My Life had debuted at Number Three on the New York Times bestseller list for hardcover nonfiction.
I should start by saying congratulations: You’re a best-selling author!
Roland Orzabal: Thank you. I think the initial success is down to Tears for Fears fans. It’s going to take word-of-mouth and months of doing interviews for me to put across the point of the book: Yes, it’s about Tears for Fears, and it’s about my life — warts and all — but it’s also an introduction to astrology. I try and explain it so it’s more in-depth than star-sign astrology in newspaper columns. It’s a rich book — a book of self-analysis and of understanding the principles, energies, and qualities that make up my life.
Was this your goal from the beginning?
No. My literary agent in New York was taking around a book of fiction I’d written called Truthwall. Publishers would say, “Oh, has he written a memoir?” You know, thinking about book sales. I never thought about it because my mum is still alive. I didn’t want to drag any skeletons out of the closet.
While this was going on, I had a vague thought: I knew a lot about astrology; a lot of people don’t know about it [or] understand it. So I thought, “Can I combine the story of my life, the story of Tears for Fears, and astrology?” And that’s what I did.
I couldn’t have written a superficial memoir — no way. I had to put across the things that I believe, like consciousness and near-death experience.
So, for longtime fans, the book’s a bit of a Trojan Horse. But you’re looking to reach beyond your base?
Exactly. Last week, I [was a guest on] The Astrology Podcast. That’s an entirely different audience. I didn’t realize how huge the subject was; it spans all age groups.
And I was paid the biggest compliment ever, and I don’t know if [the host] meant it, but I’ll take it. There’s an astrology book, Cosmos and Psyche, by Richard Tarnas. He started off very skeptically, but he explains how events like 9/11 and the First World War, the Second World War, the progression of female rights and racial equality occurred in sync with the movements of certain planets. It’s one of the best books I’ve ever read. Now, this [podcast host] told me my memoir is the Cosmos and Psyche of personal memoirs. I was blown away!
For someone with a bestselling rock memoir, you’re unusually low-profile. You don’t have a large social media following, and you didn’t do the usual public-facing promotion — no signings, no book tour. A lot of musicians put out a memoir and take a victory lap, but you didn’t. Why?
I made a decision very early on — I think [Tears for Fears co-founder Curt Smith] did as well — that personal life, family, comes first. When I have a great song to sing, then is the time to put it out. When that’s not happening, it’s time to deal with the people around you, make life as comfortable for them and for yourself as possible.
So no, I’m not one of these people. I’m not fame-hungry, never have been. For me, it’s always about understanding the world within, explaining it, and trying to get to a point where it doesn’t overwhelm me.
And I was never relieved by success. It’s never come along and made life easier. Success and failure are two sides of the same coin, so I’ve got to embrace them both.
Your first marriage lasted 35 years, and the book begins with you writing in brutal detail about your first wife Caroline’s dementia and alcoholism. You’re a helpless witness, even though you’re a carer. It’s one thing putting all of that onto the page, and another knowing people are reading it. How are you feeling now that your story, and your family’s, is out in the world?
I feel good about expressing it because I think our friends and even our sons were strangers to the truth. Caroline made sure our circle of friends shrank and shrank. There were very, very few people who came to the house in the end. That was because of her behavior; she was very difficult to deal with. So a lot of that needed to be explained.
And I’d met Emily, my new wife, before Caroline passed, so that’s another thing that needed to be explained, because that seems quite strange — like cheating. But any physical relationship I’d had with Caroline had ended five years before. I was a carer, but I was a carer to someone who was intent on killing herself with alcohol.
Caroline was an amazing woman until alcohol took over her life. She was committed once. I spent three months visiting her in a psych ward, and she was down to 80 pounds. She almost died. She came out of that psych ward on a high: three months of no alcohol, antipsychotic drugs. She was incredible. But it didn’t last. She relapsed badly.
I said to her, “If you go back to the psych ward, I’m not going to be visiting every day. I don’t want to put my life on hold while you kill yourself.” And she said to me she’d never go to a place like that ever again. She would go to a place where people couldn’t find her — and what she meant was the grave.
So she knew she was very ill. She had stage-four cirrhosis of the liver. She knew that there was a choice between sobriety and alcohol, and she chose alcohol. She chose death over life.
But while you were caring for Caroline, and after her death, you developed your own substance-abuse issues: heavy drinking and a dangerous dependence on Ambien.
I initially used Ambien for sleep, though I was using way too much for far too long. With this job, you’d fly to L.A. for five days and be performing at four o’clock in the morning, your body-clock time. You take a little bit of Ambien, the edges blur, and you sing like a bird.
I guess what happened when Caroline passed was, because I was addicted to Ambien, I couldn’t feel the grief like I did with my father when I was in my twenties. That was much healthier. I was in psychotherapy, and it all came out.
The thing about grief is that it can be extremely threatening if you don’t acknowledge it and feel it. Every time the wave threatened me — it came up from the stomach — I would take a little bit of Ambien to quash it. That is dangerous, because then you start taking more and more. In the end, I was on tour taking 100, 150 [milligrams] a day — 15 times any recommended dose. I was withdrawing and overdosing on the same day. I would have to still those terrible, terrible pains with a little bit of Ambien and a little bit of alcohol.
I managed to get through it all. I booked myself into rehab in August 2019. It was very harsh to start, but it got me better.
You and Curt have had a sometimes acrimonious relationship over the years, yet he was one of the first people to read Welcome to My Life. What’s your relationship like these days?
He’s been amazing. As we get older, we get all these illnesses and terrible things happening to us — mine, partly my own fault. But he’s been great. He’s the first person to take all the pressure off me. He says, “Your health is more important than touring. Don’t worry about that, don’t worry about me.”
We’ve been together for such a long time, and we’ve had many peaks and troughs, yet we’re still together. [The 2022 album] The Tipping Point was a real test of our strengths, and we got through that. We continued to work on songs for [2025’s partial-live album] Nervous Planet and to tour. Yeah, it’s all pretty wonderful.
On the opposite end of the spectrum is Hall & Oates. In the book, you write about your tour with them in 2017. Their partnership has since completely imploded.
Yeah, it has. Well, I didn’t really speak to Daryl Hall. I’m not sure if he knew who I was. I spent a lot of time with John Oates. He was always in my dressing room. …I think their issue was about selling their catalog?
Yes, Oates wanted to sell his stake in the business that controlled their catalog.
Right, which he could do. But I suppose the problem depends on who he sold it to, because then Hall & Oates would be in partnership with a company that Daryl Hall might not want to have any influence over their catalog. I see that. I get that.
I would defer to Curt because I wouldn’t want the same thing to happen to us in any way.
You and Curt still own your publishing, correct?
Yeah. We haven’t sold our publishing. I’ve had offers. It sounds like a lot of money.
And you have a young daughter to think about.
And I’m not getting any younger. But there’s part of me that can’t help being creative, and I don’t want that to stop. I don’t want to get to the point where I’ve arrived. I like the struggle.
Tears for Fears has the Sowing the Seeds Deluxe Edition coming Oct. 16. You describe the original release in the book as a nightmare to make: scrapped recording sessions, fired producers, a staggering million-plus-pound price tag. When you listen to it now, was it worth all of that?
Definitely. There are recordings on that album, like “Sowing the Seeds of Love,” “Woman in Chains,” “Badman’s Song” — how did we do that? This is the band that brought you “Mad World” and “Pale Shelter,” then suddenly we’re playing with all these incredible players in extended gospel and blues. That kind of sums up our journey. I absolutely love it.
You recently told me you’ve written nine new songs. Can you tell me about them?
One is called “The Boneless Child.” That’s also the title of the last chapter of the book. Last year, when Emily was pregnant with our daughter, Eula, we found out from a blood test that it was a girl, and I wept tears of joy. You can know so much more now than when I had my sons 30-odd years ago.
We saw a scan at 20 weeks, and the technician said, “Wow, what a beautiful spine!” I thought, “This is incredible. How does this happen?” From allegedly nothing to suddenly this human being with a will, with intention, with purpose, with all these organs in exactly the right place!
So I wrote the lyrics, “Though she rose on the tide/We put bones in the child.” It’s almost an amorphous substance, and then it’s our job to give it structure. We don’t put bones in physically, obviously, but we’re giving structure to an amorphous life.
I was 63 when Eula was born, so I’m thinking about life expectancy and how long I’ve got, really, to be a parent. I also wrote a song to be played at my funeral. It’s for Emily and Eula, about where I’m going to be. It’s called “Where the Light Never Dies.”
Are these going to be Tears for Fears songs?
I don’t know. I’m working on my own. I do that a lot anyway. I’m going back into the studio in L.A. in November to work some more.
With Curt or on your own?
Without Curt. He’s part of a consortium that is buying Bath City Football Club. I think he’s more interested in that. It’s exciting. He was born in Bath. I mean, rather him than me, but it’s a big deal.
You also lived in Bath. Are you not a football fan?
I am a soccer fan. But the last time I played, I was nine or 10 years old, and I was playing in the junior tournament. We were in the final, and it was in front of a massive stadium. Well, to me, it was massive. [Laughs.] But I put one ball in my own net, and I gave away a penalty. So that was my experience of soccer.
You and Curt are very different.
Yeah, soccer and astrology: That sums it up.
You’ve said Tears for Fears are going to tour next June, July, and August. In North America?
Definitely.
Because I think your memoir is reawakening interest in Tears for Fears among longtime fans, and it’ll also bring you new ones.
I think when you expose more of yourself, when you tell more of the story, people realize, “I don’t know another band like them. They’re unique, they’re individual, it’s an interesting partnership.” I think [the book] is bringing our story to people’s attention, and I’m hoping that when the tickets go on sale next year, people will be excited about that as well.
And maybe it’ll help you get nominated for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame — do you ever think about that?
I don’t. I like the fact that we fly under the radar. But also, there are so many amazing artists that have been inducted that I wouldn’t… Maybe in years to come? Our manager, Irving Azoff, he’s talked about it for years, that we should be in it. But I’m not too concerned.
Last question: With Welcome to My Life a bestseller, are there more books in your future? Maybe an astrology one?
I’m pretty sure Truthwall will come out. We had an offer. … A book on astrology? I thought about it, but I’m not sure, because the astrology books I’ve read are menu books: Mars means this, Sagittarius means this, so Mars in Sagittarius means that. I would only write a book on astrology if I could find an absolute original way of explaining it.
How about a book that combines music and astrology?
I have thought about going into the lives of other musicians. For instance, you could explain the sign of Leo by Mick Jagger and Madonna quite easily. And you could explain Aquarius through the life of Peter Gabriel.
I think Michael Jackson is also a Leo.
Virgo.
OK, but you are a Leo! A belated happy birthday, by the way.
Thank you very much.
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