Longtime NBA journo and The Athletic columnist Marcus Thompson II sat down with HoopsHype to discuss his upcoming book, Game Changers: The GOATs Who Revolutionized Basketball, Stephen Curry's future, the people who have been game changers in his own life and more.
You can buy Thompson's new book Game Changers: The GOATs Who Revolutionized Basketball at Amazon and Barnes & Noble online stores.
When did you decide to write Game Changers?
Marcus Thompson: When I wrote Dynasties: The 10 G.O.A.T. Teams That Changed the NBA Forever, I was looking at these 10 teams that shaped basketball, changed how we view it and changed what we understood was possible. That one was a little easier because I decided to look at all right now which players have done that, right? Which individuals have, you know,
evolved the game and changed how we saw basketball. And with Dynasties, like there aren't that many teams, right? Some could even argue 10 was too many. But with Game Changers, there are just so many players. So it was automatically a more arduous task. But that was the point: to essentially connect the eras of basketball and show how one led to the other.
So this current climate of basketball discourse has really siloed off eras. There are these really hard lines, this era against that era. In defense of whatever era you are from, it almost requires tearing down another era. But the hope here is to show that basketball isn't hard and fast like that. There is not a strict division between eras and players. There is an interlinking.
If you look at Steph Curry and you appreciate how he changed the game, it's hard not to see what Magic did and see that as an evolution of what happened with that. Or to see how Reggie Miller played his game and see how Steph built off that. So in a sense, it's about telling the story of basketball and how it came to be through the eyes of the players who really kinda shook our imaginations and changed what we thought was possible on the basketball court. That was the goal: to essentially continue telling this interwoven story of basketball.
Why did you choose Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, who helped revive the NBA, as the starting point?
MT: First off, we just had to do something to make it possible... To cover the whole game? It was just too hard to identify all these paradigm shifts that have happened since the invention of basketball. The modern era is one of the clear divisions as far as time goes. So, Magic and Bird were the first of our lifetime when we saw basketball change dramatically. So it became an easy starting point. It was difficult because how do you write a book called Game Changers and leave out people like Wilt Chamberlain? But we had to start somewhere.
One of the things I learned through Dynasties is that the part that gets lost is the element of what you saw live. It's all stats and highlights and stuff, but we kinda lose the element of how it felt at the time, how it felt for the audience, and how it felt for the player. Some of these great moments and feats, they lose luster because we don't give much credence to what it was like at the time. For example, in 2016, it's Game 7; it's LeBron's Cavaliers trying to make this historic comeback against the 73-win Warriors. If you weren't there, it's hard to understand the amount of pressure in that game and what was at stake. I think that part gets lost a bit.
Essentially, the audience that we are writing to, the furthest they can go back with any real authority that they've seen is Magic, right? And then there's an audience who have seen before that, but we didn't want to go so far back that it became a conversation about players very few people have seen. It just felt like a safe, easy place to start where we could say, 'All right, this is a manageable window where we can analyze the evolution of basketball from there.'
What separates an anomaly from a game changer and who was the hardest player to categorize?
MT: The 'Anomaly' was essentially a way of including people who changed how we viewed basketball, but nobody else could duplicate the things they could do. They pushed our minds, our paradigm, our imaginations and our understandings, but that was it because nobody else could replicate it. They were essentially this one-offs.
There's no better version of that than Shaquille O'Neal. We've never seen anybody that big move like that, or anyone that big with that amount of skill, but also maintain a ferocious, dominant mindset. He was a seven-foot giant who liked to bully. That wasn't always the case; sometimes they could be just gentle giants. When we saw Shaq, we thought, 'This is insane; we didn't know this was possible.' But you'll also never see another Shaq. It's not like kids around the neighborhood are saying, 'I want to go play like Shaq.' That's not happening.
With Game Changers, I focused on the people who, because they played and because they did what they did, created this pivot in basketball. It opened up some things, and now more people can do it, right? We see Steph Curry, he shoots these threes, and now everybody can shoot threes. The way we think about basketball changes for everybody. But the anomalies, those are the ones where it's like, 'hey, we saw it, but it's never happening again.'
To me, one of the tougher ones was Kobe Bryant, because Kobe's game is clearly like a pattern after Michael Jordan. So essentially in that sense, he's not the game changer. He's a disciple. He's a disciple of how Jordan changed the game, but also his impact was so great that basketball did change after him and it was like kind of weigh in like, is he a Jordan disciple, or is he a complete game changer? So he could have fit either way, and it was a tough call to make, and part of it has to do with honor.
We definitely want to honor people who deserve honor, and it can't be an exhaustive list, but it felt like Kobe is one of those people you just simply have to honor and it was difficult to really capture, like, that he was in both of these worlds. He is a sign of Jordan's impact. Kobe is Exhibit A of how Jordan changed basketball. But he's also changed basketball in his own way. The way he approaches the game, his bent on work and skill development and grind, essentially created or popularized a whole new culture about how to view basketball. Kobe was a really difficult one. Where do we put him? Also, he's an anomaly? He is one of one. He couldn't really fit anywhere. And it was hard to figure out where to put him.
Which connection in the basketball genealogy you created was the most fascinating and which might seem like a reach, but you're confident will hold up?
MT: I think to me the one that was the most fascinating was Maya Moore being connected to Michael Jordan. I was like, man, people are going to kill me for this. [Laughs] But if you saw Maya, it makes a lot of sense. If you were there, if you remember what it was like: two minutes left, the biggest game of the year and Maya had the ball and just how inevitable she felt, how she takes one dribble, gets to the spot, pull-up, fadeaway, bucket, right? Just a sense of like, it's her game. That felt so Jordan. I mean, even Jordan thought so; she signed with Jordan Brand, she fit what he's about. So, but I was like, man, I guess people are gonna people are going to crush this one. I'll ride with Maya on that one.
There are so many connections in the book: Rick Barry/Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki/Karl-Anthony Towns...
MT: That's one of the parts that I really hope the book outlines, because these people did what they did and succeeded at it; it changed our minds about basketball and I think people kind of lose the fact that it wasn't always this way. So when Dirk came into the league, if you're seven feet and you're shooting jumpers like that, it was frowned upon. 'You got to get in the paint, man. You can't be out here shooting.' So, he was counter to basketball culture. And if he doesn't succeed, it stays that way. He wasn't the first big man to try to shoot. Manute Bol used to shoot threes. But Dirk made it. He was so good and so effective at what he did that it became adoptable. So, now we get a guy like KAT, and we don't blink at the fact that he's hitting step-back threes. It's now a part of how we understand the game. But people don't know. But if you stop to think about it, what Dirk went through, what happens if Dirk doesn't become Dirk Nowitzki? What happens if he never wins the title, if he doesn't beat LeBron in 2011 and redeem himself for losing to the 'We Believe' Warriors, right? These people had to fight through stuff and change how the masses view something requires a sacrifice. You're going to have to take L's. It doesn't work until it works. And they deserve some honor for being that type.
I guess some great players inevitably had to be left out. If you had an extended edition of the book, who would you add?
MT: A'ja Wilson would be one. Moses Malone is in there, but like Dr. J [Julius Erving], I think that the ABA types were game changers. They're in there as hoop parents, but if we were going back further, we would definitely call them game changers. Dr. J paved the way for Michael Jordan. This idea of playing the game above the rim and off the ground. If we were starting before Magic and Bird and including the ABA types, yeah, Dr. J, that was a tough one to leave out. That was hard.
Erving is in the book, but current players like James Harden have been left out.
MT: There are just so many. That's what I'm saying. That's the difficult part. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's mentioned, but I do think Shai's going to be one of these players. Like, when he's done playing, there's a good chance when he's done, he will have altered how we think. I think there's a good chance of that. Maybe not right now. There are just so many of these kinds of quality players, but I tended to lean toward the '90s, right? Like when basketball started making a shift to the current era. So some of these guys, like Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, you start thinking about, like, even though they didn't rise to the level of All-Star, All-NBA, they still had this significant impact. I do feel like James Harden was definitely very close in that sense. And the difficult part is there's just no way. I knew a month into doing research, there's just no way I'm not going to leave out somebody. Like there's just no way. Like somebody's going to make a great argument and be like, 'Yo, I don't have anything against what you're saying.' Somebody's going to get left off because there are just too many really good players. Chris Paul, man. These are generational super talents.
I also think Derrick Rose is one of the players who could be considered a game changer. Perhaps if he played longer, if his career reached other heights, but what we understand about athleticism at a point guard, Derrick Rose completely blew our minds about it. You can put your best athlete at point guard because of Derrick Rose. So, there are a lot of players; you're right. I hope people do kind of talk about it and actually give the people who deserve it their flowers in the discourse, even if they're not in the book.
Was including women's basketball legends part of the book from the beginning? Did it feel natural to weave them into the story?
MT: Yeah, from the very first conversation. You can't do this book without including women. This is not an NBA book; it's like a basketball book. My thoughts were like, you have to have women in this book. The story of women in basketball cannot be excavated from the story of basketball without damaging basketball. Now the difficulty was finding people who changed the game. Not because women aren't capable, but just because the NBA is such a behemoth that it shapes basketball at every level.
I've been watching women's basketball my entire life, so all players follow NBA players, right? And that's the innovative part of the game. So, it was hard to find true innovation because the NBA sets the tone for everything. I feel like there probably could have been more women, but with the parameters that we were going with, that we kind of narrowed the book down to, it was tough to look and say, 'Hey, you know, this person was the first to do this in basketball, or this person was the first to really change how we viewed basketball. It wasn't popular enough at the time, and it wasn't the trendsetter like the NBA was. So that's the difficulty.
But that only underscores, to me, the women who did make an impact because they did so with this behemoth of a league over them. To stand out as innovative when the best basketball players in the world are innovating only shows how impressive it is. So to me, Candace Parker really popped as somebody who really left an imprint on basketball. The game was looked at differently because Parker played in it. Sheryl Swoopes, Maya Moore, as I mentioned, the first, like, probably American women's super superstar that everybody knew, Cheryl Miller. You just can't tell the story of basketball without them, and basketball's evolution more than anything, right? How did basketball go from where it began to where it is now? They are central to that story. So this book could not be done without women players for sure.
You covered the Warriors' golden era for years. What do you make of Stephen Curry's current situation and future? Do you expect him to re-sign with the Warriors?
MT: Steph is re-signing. Steph isn't going anywhere. He never was. It's really important to him. He said this for years. He wants to play for the same team his whole career. And I think it would take something dramatic to get him off that. And at 38, it's tough. Like, where's he going? I mean, that's a big one. Where does Steph Curry feel comfortable going and feel like it's his? I think he's a very honor-driven player and I do think he takes honor in, hey, he'd rather go down not winning with his guys than going somewhere else and winning. People have to remember he had a front-row seat to what happened to KD. You go to another team, win a championship with somebody else, people will turn that against you. Steph hears everything. He listens and he's very protective of his reputation that way. So I think the Warriors would have to say, 'Hey, we don't want to do this anymore.' They would have to be like, 'We don't want to win; we just want to get rid of all this money, go cheap, and let's go the cheap route.' And that's just not who the Warriors are. It just isn't.
I feel like they include him in the process. He's aware of what's going on. His voice matters, and as long as that's the case, Steph is fine. He's going to hold their feet to the fire; he's going to make sure they're sticking to it. The Warriors want to win. They are thirsty to win. So their match made heaven that way. As you can see, they tried to get every star out there. They failed, but... I mean, that's what it is at the end of a run, right? It's not going to be pretty. This was probably as best as you can hope for. Hopefully Jimmy Butler comes back for them, and they can make another run, and maybe upset somebody, maybe give it one last valiant effort. What more can you ask for? They want four championships. I think Steph is good enough to stay in the game to where it's like, okay, if you get him the right pieces and get him in a matchup, he'll scare somebody. Now, ideally, they can get somebody good enough to make him like the No. 2. So, he's not carrying everything. That's just hard to do when the two oldest people on the team are making, you know, $120 million. It's tough to not go and get another player who's better than both of them.
Eventually, like after this year, they have to make some decisions about what to do with that spot. But I think Steph, at the end of his career, he's going to want to say, 'I spent 20 years or whatever with the same franchise like Kobe Bryant.' And he'll be more proud to say that than he would if he went somewhere else. Because if he goes somewhere else and doesn't win a title and gave that up, that would be tough. Now, if he goes to a place that is almost a lock to win the title, maybe you do that. But then if he goes to a place and it's a lock to win the title, will he actually get credit? Or will people say, 'Ah, he just had to go team up with this person.' I think Steph cares about all that stuff and he's going to do the thing that's best for his legacy.
Who are your personal game changers in life, as a journalist, and as a basketball fan?
MT: Well, in my life it's my wife. Easy, easy, easy question [Laughs]. In my life, for sure, it's my wife. She changed everything. She changed what was possible for me; she's been the greatest motivation and mirror I could have. So, that's easy.
From a journalist's perspective, that's a good question, Raul. That's a great one because there's so many people who've had an impact on me and made me think about this differently. But it's going to be hard to not say Marc J. Spears of ESPN, when I was really young in my career. Man, that dude, I would not be here if he didn't essentially take me under his wing and make sure I was straight. It's a real tough profession at first. So, those early years, they matter a lot. And Marc Spears was a writer for me. I'll never forget him for that, because I'm telling you, he came at the perfect time when my confidence was at its lowest, and my belief was at its lowest and he was right there. So, that's definitely one of the game changers I'd love to point out.
On the court, for me, easy: Steph Curry. Covering Steph Curry changes not just basketball; it changes people's lives! A lot of lives changed with Steph Curry, including mine. So, that dude was such a meteor that everything went with him.
If you were writing this book 10 years from now, who would you bet earns a chapter?
MT: 10 years? I'mma go with Anthony Edwards; I'm going to go with JuJu Watkins. And I'm going to go with somebody who's, like, right now 10 years old, some kid in some place, just like super tall, super skilled. Like something we haven't seen. Nikola Jokic is like a center who can run point. What we haven't seen is a seven-footer with handles like Kyrie Irving. We haven't seen that. I don't even know if it's physically possible. Like it's hard to have handles like that. But somebody somewhere is working on something right now. They're 10 years old. They're in some place in this world and they are working like crazy and they're going to do something that we've never seen. And we're going to be like, 'Yeah, that's the one right there. Here he comes.' Just like Victor Wembanyama was.
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This article originally appeared on Hoops Hype: Marcus Thompson talks about his new book 'Game Changers,' why Stephen Curry isn't going anywhere and more
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