As his farewell-to-pro-wrestling tour continued with two high-profile interviews released yesterday (Dec. 5), John Cena spoke about his relationships with a pair of men who’ve had a huge influence on him:
his father, and Vince McMahon.
During their sit-down a week ahead of Cena’s last match against Last Time Is Now Tournament winner Gunther at Saturday Night’s Main Event, Bill Simmons asked who Cena’s biggest mentor was early in his career. The WWE legend didn’t hesitate to respond with the name of a man he’s repeatedly told us he loves:
“Vince, without a doubt. He was just really kind with his time. He would explain things. Here is a person making a lot of, if not all, the choices. I am always in search for a good explanation — and he would always give one. And in giving the good explanation, you would get a nugget. And because Vince had such fluency in every avenue of the business, a lot of performers are worried about the stunts. I think one of the benefits of doing 220 shows a year is pace. And if you obsess over the physical aspect of the business, you might get exhausted. You might burn out. I love the technical aspect, but then I also became obsessed with the theatrical aspect.
“And then I also became obsessed… I became interested in the business. And not my business, like, ‘How can I take from this place to make as much as I can?’ THE business — ‘How do we get more people in the arena?’ And the only person it seemed like that had a good explanation for a lot of those questions was Vince. And that allowed just a wealth of information to be dumped on me.
“I had full faith and trust in him. I think he had full faith and trust in me. He wasn’t afraid to try, which is another thing I learned from him. Like, do not be afraid to swing big. And do not be afraid to fail. Be accountable for your failures.”
The closing line might bring McMahon’s current situation to mind, as the WWE’s longtime leader has taken little to no responsibility for the various financial and sex scandals that forced him out of all his roles at WWE and parent company TKO. Simmons, who was part of the team behind Netflix’s Mr. McMahon docuseries that had to be reworked on the fly to address Janel Grant’s still-pending sex trafficking lawsuit against McMahon and WWE, focused on the business impact of Vince’s WWE exile. Asked about the company and brand’s future without its former CEO and Chairman, Cena said:
“Of all the things he did and of all the things he taught me, one piece that was very important is that no one is irreplaceable. And that’s the truth. The one thing that needs to stand firm is the consumer’s belief in what we do. And Vince has so much knowledge.
“I think what’s happened is unfortunate because you have this individual with so much depth of field who can still offer things, and we no longer can pull from that well, but it doesn’t mean we don’t have able-bodied folks who can’t put on creative programming.
“I never wanted Vince to go, because I love him and I know how much he loves the business. But he taught me, like, ‘We’re all going to go.’ All of us. And he taught me that not only through saying, through his actions. I was there the day he fired ‘Stone Cold.’ Missed a date, got to go. His biggest attraction. ‘I got to let people know this isn’t okay.’ So, things happen. ‘We got to let people know this isn’t okay. It’s time for you to go.’
“Everybody goes, man. Everybody goes. So, because of his words — yeah. Yeah.”
In another lengthy conversation, this one on The Joe Rogan Experience with the host and WWE’s favorite insult comic Tony Hinchcliffe, Cena shut down Rogan’s question about McMahon’s current involvement with WWE by saying, “no, he’s out.”
When Rogan floated the theory that Vince will eventually be back in some capacity (one this writer also puts a lot of stock in), Cena replied:
“Nah — well, I don’t know. All that stuff is so far above me. But I know, now, he’s out. In my eyes, I’d like to think that, like, time heals everything. And I believe in forgiveness. I also believe in looking at the body of work, but I also know there’s a lot of fragile stuff going on there. I don’t know, man. I don’t know.”
As someone who’s been critical of Cena’s answers on McMahon and the allegations against him, I’ll credit Cena for living by one of his credos and listening to some of the concerns people expressed. “A lot of fragile stuff” isn’t exactly an acknowledgment of what Grant and others say McMahon did to or allowed to happen to them, but they’re progress — especially since they come along with the acknowledgment that time may not heal the real or metaphorical wounds that exist as a result of McMahon’s alleged actions.
Cena spoke of accountability again when his love of McMahon came up:
“Just because I feel a certain way about a person doesn’t exonerate them from being accountable for their actions.
”Just because he did start ‘all this gangster shit’ [as Hinchcliffe referred to the allegations against Vince, which include physical and emotional abuse, sexual assault, and sex trafficking] that doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to be accountable for his actions. So, let’s figure out what that means and then figure out if we can move forward and bring that back in the fold or if it stays the way it is.”
The 17-time WWE champ is not only reckoning with his relationship with a father figure, he also has his real dad doing wrestling podcasts about his retirement. John Cena Sr. recently went viral with criticism of Gunther after reports indicated he would be his son’s final opponent. Of that, Cena Jr. said:
“Man, there’s some shit he’ll say that is all fucked up. He said some shit yesterday, ‘I don’t think John’s last opponent’ and people listen to him because he’s a wrestling fan and is in the weird subculture zeitgeist. I want to call my dad and be like, ‘What the fuck are you doing?’
Saying “fucked up” wrestling “shit” is only a small part of the issues between the Johns Cena, though. John the younger said he had “such a shitty relationship” with his dad until recently mending fences.
“But then I’m like, no, he’s doing what he does. This is him. This is the dad I love. This is the John Cena I love. This is the guy I can sit down with and part of that is being able to process all of it. But the opportunity I get from that of learning about my father’s story…
“He’s 80, so I’m glad I’ve done this, because we don’t last forever. He’s going — we’re all going in the dirt soon, you know? But I just wanted him to be something else. I always wanted that motherfucker to change. I wanted him to be something else. And finally, I got out of my own way.”
Thankfully, I’ve never had to deal with a situation like the one Cena finds himself in with his mentor. But I can really relate to the place he’s come to with his father. Anyway…
You can find Cena’s appearances on The Bill Simmons Podcast and The Joe Rogan Experience at those links, on Spotify, or pretty much anywhere.
