Never let it be said that John Mulaney breaks a promise.
When we first talked about the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2018, the plan was to make it an annual thing à la Billie Eilish’s Vanity Fair interview. The comedian, actor, and talk-show host has been
earnestly obsessed with the Hall of Fame — who gets in, who doesn’t, who shows up — for years and there was plenty of material to mine from the diverse group of inductees each year.
Some unexpected roadblocks, though, derailed us. “Covid and some personal problems got in the way,” Mulaney deadpanned last year during our second installment. “Hey, listen, I’ll make this an annual thing now.”
He’s made good on that. Last month, from a hotel room in Fort Worth, Texas, where he was on the road for his Mister Whatever tour, Mulaney spent 90 minutes waxing about this year’s Rock Hall induction ceremony, which takes places Saturday night, Nov. 14, at Los Angeles’ Peacock Theater.
In January, he’ll embark on Mulaney Takes Manhattan, a nine-show run in New York at increasingly larger venues, starting at the 150-capacity Comedy Cellar and ending at Madison Square Garden. But first, he’s ready to dive deep on the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2026.
Before we get into this year’s class, your “standing snub” from last year besides Phish was Sonic Youth, who once again did not even get nominated. Kim Gordon recently called the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame a “meaningless construct.”
The thing with Sonic Youth — and this is a criticism I have of the Rock Hall, but also I always want to be invited to the ceremony, so I won’t be that critical — is that I feel there’s a bias against [artists] who have publicly said they think the Rock Hall is lame, and there shouldn’t be. Those should be the front runners always; people who actively say that the Rock Hall sucks should almost get special consideration.
Johnny Rotten called it a “piss stain” when the Sex Pistols got in.
This is the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. We shouldn’t reward good behavior. This isn’t like the Handsome Grandson Award or Best Good Boys.
Hall of Fame chairman John Sykes once said that being inducted is “music’s highest honor.” Do you agree?
Ooh, I don’t want to front any kind of cynicism about the Rock Hall. I was really moved when Radiohead was inducted, and [guitarist] Ed [O’Brien] was like, “I wish [Thom Yorke and Jonny Greenwood] were here because they could see that this is a big fucking deal.”
Which is a far cry from your 2019 bit on the Rock Hall about how ungrateful inductees are.
It’s not that they were ungrateful; it’s that they couldn’t have tried less with their speeches. They know it’s coming for months. It also was maybe generational. There were a lot of folks from the 1960s and Seventies who were so not-TV-ready and had so many business and artistic gripes that those just had to play out onstage.
I want to say this about the 2026 class: I think it’s a great mix. I don’t think it’s [an] exciting [list] to read. But when I think about the ceremony, that’s going to be a great ceremony. Iron Maiden is going to be a huge moment. That’s really cool.
They’re not going, though.
They’re not?
They’re going to be on tour. Singer Bruce Dickinson said, “I can’t even summon the energy to be vitriolic about it. I appreciate that a significant number of people are happy for us. That’s nice. It’s not something we’re bothered about.”
That’s interesting. I mean, I have no idea what it’s like to be completely shunned by the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and mainstream dickhead music press, right? It must have been infuriating. And it’s like, “Look at it now: In the end, you guys won and…” It’s like, “No, in the end, I’m still mad.” Zeppelin in the end is probably still like, “How could you give us bad reviews?”
I’m sad Iron Maiden’s not going. This isn’t like a lifelong fandom, but we loved “Hallowed Be Thy Name” in high school. They were so fan-grown and fan-supported that I kind of like that they’re doing a show rather than showing up.
Bassist Steve Harris said, “I’m glad it’s happened so the Americans will stop banging on about it.”
I gotta say: I don’t know what it’s like to not be from America.
That’s a controversial take.
I guess that’d be annoying. “We have this thing in Cleveland, and we’re like, ‘You’re in, you’re out,’” and they’re like, “What are you talking about?”
Were you a metalhead growing up?
No. Clearly not. I always thought the bands would beat me up, but then you look at them and they’re like waify little artists sometimes. If you asked me when I was 10 what would happen if Metallica walked in, I’d be like, “I think the band would beat me up.”
I read a great line once about Slayer, I think. How the writer was so scared of them until he realized they’re just guys who learned how to play musical instruments.
Right, guys who slowed down records in their little house as a kid to learn the fingering of different rock songs are not like Bluto from Popeye.
We’ll move on to Phil Collins, who is attending but not playing.
I feel like I met his daughter in an alley behind the Troubadour immediately when I was out of rehab, which is a foggy time. I was doing shows at the Troubadour: My friend had [rented] a white vintage Porsche, and I was standing next to it. And I think she commented on the car, and then she said, “I’m Phil Collins’ daughter.”
You didn’t know her?
No. And I said, “That’s great.” And I meant it, you know. But so many things were going on in my life that it’s one of those things where, like, “Sure,” and then later, we took that Porsche to the Rose Bowl parking lot so that I could learn to drive stick with my friend Marcus. I was doing OK but I thought I was in first gear, but I was in reverse. Drove it right onto a curb. And again, newly out of rehab and stone-cold sober, but not a good time to crash a vintage Porsche.
You still get a pass. Was the owner pissed?
No, you just have to pay for everything. I found as I got older, people are less emotionally invested in car accidents. They just want the money to come.
I almost want to move on and just have that be your commentary on Phil Collins.
What were we talking about? Oh, I was surprised by the gap between Peter Gabriel and Phil [in years of induction], and I would have bet you a lot of money Phil was already in.
Are you a Genesis guy?
Sure. Yeah. I get into it when it’s Phil-heavy. I’m not doing the “wearing the animal heads fake Pink Floyd” stuff.
I thought you’d be into that Peter Gabriel, visual, crazy, mask-type shit.
I wish I was because it seems like it’s up my alley. I don’t think the masks are nice. I don’t think they look good enough. You see this a lot with avant-garde art. “You’re like, ‘Yeah, but I bet if you took a few more days, you’d have a nicer horse head or whatever.’”
Phil went through a pretty messy divorce, to the point where TMZ started covering him.
Um, but the real headline is that I think I met his daughter once.
OK, let’s go into Luther Vandross. His first nomination.
First nomination and it’s astounding. He’s had such a big career. Absolutely great pick. And what’s interesting about Luther Vandross is he had hits and Grammys into the 2000s. The breadth of his career and the relevance he maintained is insane. I could see it not electrifying a broad music audience, but like Iron Maiden, this is an excellent choice.
Watching the documentary on him a few years ago, I felt sad at how much his weight and personal life overtook his voice and musical contributions.
Because no journalist has ever actually been interested in how music is created. They only want people’s personal lives. There are maybe five actual rock journalist stories where they get into like, “How did you write that song and what kind of guitars are you using?”
Wu-Tang Clan will be attending the ceremony.
Now what does that mean?
I think all of them, according to RZA.
Amazing.
I spoke to RZA after the nominations came out. He said there was a giant group chat of all the Wu-Tang members congratulating each other and saying how happy and grateful they were.
They should auction off adding you for a day. For one day, they add your number and then they take you off, but for a day, you get to be on.
RZA wants Barack Obama to induct them.
If you’ve seen Barack Obama’s summer playlists, I don’t know if the man has the coolest musical taste [laughs].
Fair, but it would be cool to see Obama stride up there as the elder statesman.
Well, yeah, because he was president of the United States.
Excuse me, hold on. I will fight you on this. There are some presidents—
I’m saying it’s cool, too, but it’s funny [laughs] that you’re like, “He’s kind of become an elder statesman.” He’s a two-term president, Jason.
I’m sorry, I would not call George W. Bush an elder statesman.
Oh, to many he is.
Fine, to many. But even apolitically, you would consider him that?
No, he’s one of our great painters.
Anyway, what’s your Wu-Tang background?
Limited. Always loved the song “C.R.E.A.M.”, and I was always happy that the acronym worked so well. I always wondered if it came acronym first, phrase second.
That’s called a backronym.
I’ve never heard of that.
Like Guru of Gang Starr was Guru but he later said it stood for “Gifted Unlimited Rhymes Universal.”
That’s amazing. Well, that’s a clear backronym. You would never be like, “I’m thinking of calling myself Gifted Unlimited Rhymes Universal.”
Tupac did that for “Thug Life.” “The Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everybody.”
[Laughs.] Wow. Wow. That’s a good other side of the coin to, “And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.” That is so funny.
Point is, RZA was very happy. In 2014, the E Street Band talked for 30 minutes. I asked RZA if every member was going to speak.
They should all speak, and that’s not a problem. That’s what it is! This idea that it’s a tight, entertaining ceremony is wrong. No shade to the producers but this should always be one of the most unwieldy, unproduced events of the year. I’ve been to it at Barclays, and I’m like, “This could go on forever.” Janet Jackson name-checked everyone who had ever done anything for her in her career. It was fantastic. This is not like the Best Picture Oscar where one producer speaks. We want to hear from everybody, especially the people that they were on the fence about bringing.
RZA said, “Some of us could talk. Some of us don’t talk … They’ll probably nominate one of us. We’ll probably have a conversation like, ‘Who wants to talk? Let’s regulate this.’”
I mean, listen: You’re the Wu-Tang Clan. I don’t think regulation is a big part of the appeal. I was actually googling — this is so silly that I did this. Are they the first residents of Staten Island to be inducted?
This is a good trivia question.
Joan Baez.
I admit I did not know that. Let’s go into Oasis.
Now this is a very popular group for so many people. I know nothing about Oasis. I know that it’s two brothers. I know that they are standoffish and that they are unpleasant but then people like them. I know about “Wonderwall.” I was in Ireland last summer and they played Dublin that week, and the front page every day was about Oasis.
So the reunion tour personally did not do much for you?
That’s a wrong way of phrasing it. This is not a me-versus-Oasis. This is pure lifelong ignorance with zero plans to correct that.
That’s fair. So let me read you a couple of quotes from Liam.
Are they showing up [to the event]?
They are not coming. Liam said in 2024, “Do me a favor and fuck off. It’s like putting me in the rap hall of fame, and I don’t want to be a part of anything that mentally disturbed. Besides, I’ve done more for rock & roll than half of them clowns on that board, so it’s all a load of bollocks.”
So I know nothing about these guys, but just hearing that quote, I’m like, oh, you’re actually play-acting at this persona. That is such a loaded, weird statement. It’s like, “Oh, what a jail to have to be that guy.”
Well, it’s funny you say that, because this year, he said, “I want to thank all the people who voted for us. It’s a real honor. Ever since I was a little kid singing in the shower, I dreamt about one day being in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. It’s true what they say: Anything is possible if you have a dream.”
See, that’s equally fake. That’s so funny.
I don’t know which Liam Gallagher to believe.
I think it’s the first. I think the proof is in that he’s not coming. Ah, wow, that’s incredible. Did they do more for rock than a lot of other people? And this is not a knock on their impact or popularity, but what did they usher in?
Britpop, basically.
They’re responsible for it?
Not just them, but they were the most popular band of that era. At their peak, it was like Beatlemania in 1964.
OK. If that’s the case then anything he says or feels is legitimate. We should have no expectations about people having their feet on the ground if that happens to them. It is totally unfair to blow people up to a Beatlemania status and then ever question where they’re coming from in terms of humility.
I’ll say this: I really came into this interview very positive and excited about this ceremony, and now I’m frustrated at people not coming, and I wonder if they should be kicked out.
Billy Idol will be there. I remember you talking about him last year — I think Fred Armisen was the Billy Idol fan and you said you were trying to get more into him.
I never did. I don’t even know why I said that. I had no plans to. I was completely dishonest last year. I was sitting in an ocean community where I live, and I was in a lot better mood. And I think I thought, “Man, maybe this year I’ll get more into Billy Idol.” I tell you now, from my hotel in Fort Worth, Texas, looking at a parking lot, I have no plans to do that. It’s pure ignorance, no dissing. It was some sort of bizarre optimism about the amount of bandwidth I have that I was going to make a lot of space to get into Billy Idol.
Is there a band or artist that you didn’t know much about last year that you are now loving this year?
Full headline: John Mulaney is aware that as I approach 45, I am not venturing out enough. I get into new bands, but I can’t say I have devoured some bands’ catalog that I didn’t know much about. Oh, Rickie Lee Jones! Fred [Armisen] was talking about her first performance on SNL, where she had a fire in a garbage can onstage, and I got into all those albums. Those are fantastic. “A Lucky Guy” is such a great song. “Chuck E’s in Love.” They’re just really good albums, and I don’t have much profound to say about it.
We go into one of my personal favorites: Sade.
Now Sade. Now that’s interesting.
The band, of course. Not just the singer. You’re looking at me very quizzically.
I never knew about this distinction. When you say Sade, you’re talking about her, right?
Sade is the band. Sade Adu is the lead singer of Sade but she also goes by just “Sade”.
OK, well.
I have to be pedantic about this stuff. It’s my job.
So, if I focused on her, that would be like….
Totally fine, totally fine.
OK, I didn’t know that distinction, and now that I know that, it has already left my brain. Mandal, a comedian on tour with me right now, is very into Sade. For backstage listening, “Hang On to Your Love” got into the mix. Sade has come into my algorithm rotation a lot. So maybe Sade would be a group that I got way more into in the past year. Are they performing?
They haven’t said one way or the other but highly, highly unlikely. [Editor’s note: Since this interview, the band has revealed that they are not attending the ceremony.]
I don’t know how I feel about this, man, because I started out being like, you should exclusively induct people who hate the Rock Hall, right? Or rather, they should get special consideration. But this sucks.
I feel like I’m souring you.
No, I’m frustrated with these artists a little, but I’m also not. I like it, you know. Maybe that’s why I love the Rock Hall. There’s such push-pull of affection and frustration. Both with the artists themselves and their participation in the event. if I’m producing it [and they won’t show], I go, “Then you’re out.” Or I would be back-channeling all year and go, “If you show, you’ll get it.”
Bands sometimes do get their say on who gets inducted and who doesn’t.
I’m very torn on the Rock Hall ceremony and what’s most important: Is it getting the names in or is it that it’s a good show? And I do value those almost equally. And I don’t like the artist saying which members get in. I like the person in Blondie that Debbie Harry doesn’t like up there demanding to play. That is the fun as well. So, as much as I’d like back-channeling so that it’s a big killer ceremony, I think the drummer you don’t want to run into should be up onstage with you in a tux semi-ruining your night.
Listen, these are partnerships formed by teenagers that last for decades; they’re not reasonable adults forming a business relationship. These are teenagers who are playing with the four people they know who also play instruments. Like, your drummer is the guy you first meet who plays drums.
Let’s go into Joy Division and New Order.
I couldn’t be happier about this. On a primal level, New Order is close to being my absolute favorite music.
Peter Hook is going and is very excited. In our talk last year, you dropped “Atmosphere,” “Leave Me Alone,” and “Ceremony,” but your love goes far deeper than that.
“Leave Me Alone” is one of my favorite songs ever. It’s a type of sound where I just like every song so much. There’s no Joy Division song I don’t want to listen to. I don’t know what it is. Maybe it was playing in the hospital when I was born, but on a very deep level, it is so familiar. If you said you can bring as many albums [by anyone] with you [to a desert island] or just all of Joy Division and New Order, I think I’d do [the latter].
Do you have one New Order album that is your classic?
Power, Corruption & Lies. Every single song. When I first discovered that, I thought it was a greatest hits album. I’m not kidding. Is someone cool going to sing as Ian Curtis?
We don’t know yet.
Who would be really good?
I’m still on board with cool rock or soul female vocalists with a deep, booming voice taking on parts like that.
Are you going for that deep of a voice? I don’t know if he is a big fan, but Julian [Casablancas] would be really cool. I know he’s more associated with the Velvets, or that’s what people say anyway. Or [Irish singer] CMAT would be cool. She’d be great for “Love Will Keep Us Together.”
“Love Will Tear Us Apart.”
[Laughs.] I must be in such a good mood. That’d be funny. You have Captain and Tenille come out and then kind of in a Elvis Costello SNL thing, like “No, no, no, enough of this song” and they do “Love Will Tear Us Apart.”
The urban legend was that “Love Will Tear Us Apart” was a response song to “Love Will Keep Us Together.”
I would imagine. It’s a backronym, maybe. They wrote the song and someone’s like, “Oh, you’re really taking on the Captain,” and they’re like, “Yeah, yeah, that’s what we’re doing.” But it’s phenomenal. It’s one of these times where it’s cooler that it took a few years [to get inducted]. That does happen sometimes, where it’s not that I need everyone to get in the first year of eligibility, I hope you know that. I like a few years in between, because sometimes people come up and you’re like, “You’re way too young.”
There were so many years when it was like, “Will the Cure get in?” “Will New Order?” I imagine they’ll induct the Smiths in the near future.
Do you think Morrissey would show up? I don’t think he would.
No, I think he would do a Johnny Rotten thing and write an angry letter and not show up. I think Johnny Marr shows, though.
Morrissey and Van Morrison are like, you know those kids in school where you felt bad for them, they kept getting in trouble so much? They step in it so much publicly. I know it’s my algorithm, but I feel like almost every week I’m fed a story of Morrissey doing something controversial. On Everybody’s Live, I wanted to invite Eric Clapton and Van Morrison [laughs]. I just thought it’d be a funny situation in 2025 to have them perform their [anti-Covid vaccine] song [“This Has Gotta Stop”]. My hope too was, let’s be clear, rather tongue-in-cheek.
Van is like that kid where you’re like, “Hey, man, you’re gonna get expelled. And I know you’re an angry kid, but like, just hold it together. It’s April, we’re almost there.” And then they just whip the biggest, wettest wad of toilet paper at the chalkboard, and you’re like, “God.”
Last year, you wanted Steve Albini to get the Musical Excellence award. That didn’t happen but we do have Rick Rubin.
A lot of the Broken Record podcast episodes that he’s hosted are great. He doesn’t play any instruments. I remember talking to Jon Brion about music he was doing for my special The Comeback Kid. And I go, “I don’t know how to describe it.” He goes, “OK, don’t talk about music. Just talk about color.” I go, “OK.” He goes, “So what about that part?” I go, “Too yellow.” He goes, “I know what you mean. I know what you mean.”
Let’s move on to Ed Sullivan.
I have nothing to say about Ed Sullivan.
Really? I completely profiled you as someone who would have many things to say about Ed Sullivan.
So in the sixth grade, I was 11, and we had a Christmas concert and a spring concert. People were figuring out different acts they were going to do for one of them, and a couple of friends of mine wanted to do the Beatles, and I was going to do the Beatles with them. And then I was sick. Do you remember this when you were a little kid? If you missed a day of school when you came back, it was like a wild catchup. I [rarely] let myself get sick because I couldn’t drop the ball. I couldn’t turn my back on these people. I show up after being sick, and I’m no longer in the Beatles.
They kicked you out?
They kicked me out. I wasn’t there. I understood. If you don’t show, you get devoured. There was no framework for the whole concert, so I said, “We should make it an episode of the Ed Sullivan Show — the whole school concert — and I’ll be Ed Sullivan.” It became my show. So that’s what happens if you kick me out of your band. I’ll take over the whole thing. I knew at the time, I go, ”Oh, I’m not in the Beatles? OK. Well, I’m in charge of the entire show.”
How was the show?
Many of the parents said too long. By eighth grade, I recalibrated. I hosted it with my two friends, John McCarthy and John O’Brien, and it was a much tighter, better show.
You actually have a lot to say about Ed Sullivan.
I do, but I just feel like this moment at the ceremony isn’t going to be that. It’s gonna be a little flat. You’ll have some celebrity who grew up watching Ed Sullivan and couldn’t believe the acts they were seeing. What a pointless waste of time. I guess they have to do something if no one’s performing.
How about Rolling Stones producer Jimmy Miller? I also profile you as a Stones guy.
I like them a lot. They’re incredible. Do I need to name drop in order to say this?
I think you should.
Anyway, [Fugazi frontman] Ian MacKaye was telling me that he was going through artists’ albums from beginning to end and so — there was no need to mention that I got to hang out with Ian MacKaye. There’s zero need. But what that’s getting me to is, I started listening to the Rolling Stones from their first singles and albums all the way to the present. And I really loved it. That was a fun thing this year.
Did you see when The New York Times asked Mick Jagger about your story about him?
I didn’t watch it because I was a little embarrassed. The notion that I was saying he wasn’t nice isn’t true. I was saying he’s at a level of directness and a sort of air where it is perfectly fine to go “No!” Like it’s exactly what it should be. So I saw some headline of me saying he’s not nice and it wasn’t what I was trying to convey. My other thing with all the press he was doing was that the new album is really good. I just thought it was bizarre that the press wasn’t about how good this album was. I like Hackney Diamonds, too, but I think Foreign Tongues is really good. And I thought it was unfortunate that a lot of the press is just like, “You’re this famous person.”
I think that with very little lifting, places like the Times could go, “Look, we have a rare opportunity to talk to Mick Jagger. He’s a cultural icon and famous person, and his life in every way is sort of in the public domain. But we can also devote some time to this new album.”
You know what he said, right?
No, I genuinely don’t. What did he say?
He talks about how it’s easy to become disassociated from other people and “real life” and he tries to fight it. “You go out and walk on the street on your own and do normal things. Go and buy The New York Times, but that’s only temporary, because psychologically your actual state of mind is permanently damaged.”
That’s an interesting answer. OK, thank you for telling me that. I didn’t know if it was getting into, “What do you think of this guy saying you’re not nice or something?” I hear it, man. Last night, I’m onstage at the Will Rogers Auditorium in Fort Worth, and I don’t need to tell the reader what that feels like. It’s like being Neil Armstrong walking on the moon. And then I’m at Billy Bob’s Honky Tonk just as a regular person, and I really have been able to keep two feet on the ground.
You want to hear my 2027 class?
Very much.
I didn’t want to get into this too much because I’m always going on in our interviews about what didn’t happen and how mad I am, and I’m so angry. I just want to have a more positive outlook and less about why hasn’t this happened yet. But Let’s start with the Musical Excellence award. Now, if it were me, I would induct this person on solo work. They’re already inducted for a band. But I think solo work plus producing, there are zero reasons to not give the Musical Excellence Award to John Cale. Steve Albini and John Cale — Musical Excellence Award. Now the list.
There is debate about this artist because of their output. There is zero reason to dispute their influence.I would put Lauryn Hill in the class of 2027.
But not the Fugees?
You want the Fugees? I’ll do the Fugees. Will they show up? You’re looking at this as a fan. I’m looking at this as a producer.
I’m not going to get into why it hasn’t happened yet. It’s very bizarre. I don’t know. I don’t want to know. But Mariah Carey — I don’t want to get negative, but this is a blasphemy at this point.
Here’s another no-brainer that I could not believe was not inducted. It’s not on the level of crime Mariah Carey is, but I was shocked to know Supertramp is not in.
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not.
I’m 100 percent serious. Breakfast in America is a perfect album. “Take the Long Way Home.” “Goodbye Stranger.” “Breakfast in America.” “Gone Hollywood.” “Just Another Nervous Wreck.”
Lil’ something for my age group, Weezer. And of course, Phish.
Phish, Weezer, Mariah Carey, Supertramp, Lauryn Hill/Fugees, Musical Excellence Award to John Cale, Steve Albini.
My hat’s off to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. I think the class of 2026 is excellent and I think I’m dead-on with my picks for next year. I can’t wait to see no one perform and a clip package of Ed Sullivan.
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